“…the war [World War 1] and the years afterwards confirmed the doubts I always had about the ideas I was brought up on — [I felt] that liberalism, feminism, nationalism, socialism, pacifism, would not work, because they refused to consider human nature as it really is.”

Nobel Prize winning author novelist Sigrid Undset concerning her journey from agnosticism to Christianity.


13 Responses to Observations

  1. Old Jules says:

    They didn’t work all that well in the 20th Century. On the other hand, neither did anything else.

  2. Justin says:

    It’s why atheism and socialism/communism make such great bedfellows.

  3. Old Jules says:

    I agree. The history of religion played a huge part in creating revolutions beginning with the French one. Religions had their day in the sun during the times of strong monarchies, did such a bloody job of it they assured their own demise and contributed heavily to the invention of Communism, socialism and atheism as a counter-stroke alternative.

    Those alternatives didn’t work any better though.

  4. Justin says:

    Communism was much bloodier than the monarchies ever dreamed of being.

  5. Old Jules says:

    The Inquisition was bloody enough to make up the difference.

  6. Justin says:

    The Inquisition was bloody enough to make up the difference.

    That’s factually incorrect by several orders of magnitude.

  7. Old Jules says:

    Depends on your definition of ‘bloody’ I suppose. A million Jews back then when the population was smaller is fairly bloody by my measure.

    However, using your own definition and conceding Communism was bloodier doesn’t actually constitute grounds for endorsing the one over the other. Hokay. Communism was bloodier.

    My original premise was that both have been tried and neither worked all that well. I don’t think my premise has suffered much.

  8. BettaWrekonize says:

    I hear forums.christianity.com is shutting down.

  9. jackhudson says:

    Wow, that’s pretty major.

  10. BettaWrekonize says:

    I predicted something like this when they banned you because they started banning a lot of people arbitrarily. When you got banned, there was an entire thread started dedicated to your banishment and some people posted on that thread that they specifically came to that forum only to read your comments specifically (speaking to Jhud). Everyone was questioning why you were banned and all of a sudden the mods simply shut down the thread. Now I’m not saying you’re the only reason why the forums lost its community, but I do believe that you’re part of the reason. They started banning a lot of people for little reason and it creates a domino effect. I stopped posting to the forums nearly as often after you left (hardly ever posted after that, only on rare occasions) which probably caused other people to stop posting as well. Other people stopped posting when you left which causes more people to stop posting which, in turn, causes even more people to stop posting. When the admins ban more and more people (not just you) for little reason with little warning, that’s a sure way to kill a community. I’m not saying this is the only reason why the community started to dwindle, but I do believe it was a huge part of the reason and I suspected something like this would eventually happen around the time that you got banned. You’re not the only one who got banned for little reason with little warning. and the admins were tone deaf too, when I tried to e-mail them to talk about getting you unbanned and to discuss the issue, they simply gave me an automated like response. Again, this sort of attitude is a sure way to kill a community.

  11. BettaWrekonize says:

    and after you and I stopped posting, I noticed that DrMark and UncleMonkey and many others who regularly visited the forums hardly posted much as well. Again, this creates a domino effect and is a sure way to kill a community.

  12. jackhudson says:

    Thanks for that Betta. I agree, I think Crosswalk sort of missed the fact that there are Christians who really wanted to engage the arguments of secularists, and in doing so it sometimes gets messy. I am all for having standards of behavior and civility on a forum so discussion can proceed (I have minimal ones here) but when you start trying to control content, people will go elsewhere.

    It is going to be even harder for them on Facebook, because people are used to a free flowing conversation there, and probably won’t want to subject themselves to the limits that they already seem to have decided upon. I have fond memories of the place, but I think they did a diserverse to the possibility of fruitful dialogue on issues which concern all Christians.

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